[diveinfo] [trey@myacc.net: RE: [gavinscooters] Re: XS (excess) underwear]
Jean-Sebastien Morisset
diveinfo@lists.mvlan.net
Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:20:34 -0400
----- Forwarded message from George Irvine <trey@myacc.net> -----
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:25:01 -0500
From: "George Irvine" <trey@myacc.net>
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Subject: RE: [gavinscooters] Re: XS (excess) underwear
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Christos, that is because I hate seeing people suckered by vacuum cleaner
salesmen like AG who will promote what has the most profit in it at any
expense to the poor slobs who buy it. If one wants to say the other stuff is
far cheaper and gets you by so long as nothing goes wrong, than that is
fair. To say it is "as good" is unacceptable scumbaggery to me.
Anyway, what Mr Jefferies is saying, and I alluded to, is that the thermal
tests done by Navy to select the right suits and materials for their players
were done using probes in the body, and paid no attention to what the
subjects had to say about their comfort level. This was done in tanks of ice
water. The results were blatantly clear - the Thinsulate 400 could only be
beat by heating Thinsulate 400, or using Thinsulate 600 which the divers
could not maneuver in, and the pickup was not worth the loss of mobility.
The TLS 350, AKA the "combat suit" with 400 is the most perfect combination
there is, unless you want to heat it, and then that is a something that
should be done at deco only in our realm. The reason I know these things is
my former diver partner did thermal for a while at Navy, and was one of the
guys responsible for the Navy's selection of these suits, and of course
directly responsible for the WKPP's selection of the same, and shared the
test results with me, along with a ton of other information that I used to
find my way.
When I ran the WKPP I made this combination a requirement, not a suggestion.
The problem is that the suits are expensive, the undergarments are
expensive, if you really want max performance you need to go custom, and the
margins to the dive shops are minimal. That cuts our your nickel rockets and
your scumbags like AG. For me, I had 4 custom TLS's on hand at all times
with several sets of brand new underwear, but then guess who never got 1)
cold, 2) tired, 3) bent, or even 4) uncomfortable on the longest, most
ridiculous dives imaginable? ( And that includes one 9 hour deco with a suit
flooded when my scooter prop ripped the front to shreds).
-----Original Message-----
From: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Christos Koutentis
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:12 AM
To: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [gavinscooters] Re: XS (excess) underwear
George and Jay:
Regarding thinsulate b, whilst I recognise that it was originally
spec'd by the army R&D lab in Natick for use as insoles in combat
boots whilst the uppers were lined with cambrelle, it was still
nevertheless only used in the soles.
My limited understanding with DUI's involevement is this: That they
figured out a new way of marketing it since it is more crush
resistant than anything else and hence saleable to divers, but that
otherwise it is not intrinsically any warmer than other types of
insulate.
My question to Jay is whether the 2 way stretch and 4 way stretch
used by diving concepts etc is still the same modified paraffin
material albeit with more loft. Really appreciated your input, and
greatly value this sort of tremendous expertise.
BTW George: Really find it endlessly amusing when we get a kick-arse
response from you every time we promote and AG-ism. Never fails;-)
Sorry man, but you are so much fun:-):-):-):-)
Christos
--- In gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com, "George Irvine" <girvine@...>
wrote:
>
> "they claim" and "nearly" translate to "bullshit". See Mr Jeffries
> comments - exactly on the money. The Thinsulate used in DUI wear is
MADE for
> pressure. There is only one way to beat it, and that is to wire it -
fact of
> life. High loft crap is for duck hunting, not diving - feels real
good on a
> cold day ( on the surface ), and cheap underwear generally feels
real good
> because you can replace it more often for less money. I'll spend
the money.
>
> Besides, I won't even go into what you need if you flood a suit in
terms of
> protection and buoyancy.
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Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sr. UNIX Administrator <jsmoriss@mvlan.net>
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