[diveinfo] [trey@gavinscooters.com: RE: [gavinscooters] deep end of Diepolder]
Jean-Sebastien Morisset
diveinfo@lists.mvlan.net
Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:53:35 -0400
----- Forwarded message from Trey Irvine <trey@gavinscooters.com> -----
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Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 04:52:55 -0700
From: "Trey Irvine" <trey@gavinscooters.com>
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Subject: RE: [gavinscooters] deep end of Diepolder
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The track record of the cave diving community is why Wakuilla is a closed s=
ite, and by the way I have nothing to do with who goes in there. I used to =
run the WKPP but even then the only way anyone can do a dive with the WKPP =
is if at least two other members will dive with that person, and that means=
basically that one has to be squared away to get to that point.
Clearly, those who have had the misfortune of falling into the hands of str=
okes in their early cave diving generally can never make the changes necess=
ary to do that, and then there is that constant effort by the strokes to vi=
llanize the WKPP. Makes no difference, no matter what the idiots do the tra=
ck record of the WKPP is what will make it the only one in there. If they s=
crew up, nobody will get in there, but with Casey McKinlay running the proj=
ect, that will not happen.
The strokes don't like me, so would try to keep me out of anything they cou=
ld, and of course where these is cave to be explored, they don't like anyon=
e in the WKPP for obvious reasons - they can not compete with that level of=
organization, skill, and effectiveness. Just to give you and idea of the d=
ifference in skill levels, Bill Stone assembled a team of strokes from all =
over the place who saw themselves as big time cave divers. They got a permi=
t to get into Wakulla, and WKPP got booted out for the term of their permit=
. I believe they paid off somebody at the State of Florida to get in, and t=
he result of their fiasco was a huge embarrassment to all involved in that =
permitting. Anyway, in 90 continuous days of diving, with decompression cha=
mbers, bells to come up from 90 feet, all kiinds of scooters, rebreathers a=
nd other nonsense, these guys managed to follow my line exactly halfway to =
the end of the main tunnel, while never seeing70% of the rest of the cave o=
r the last 9,000 feet
of the main line. When we were allowed back in a few months later, Jarrod a=
nd I added to our own line fromn 18,000 feet in one day in one dive on the =
first day we were allowed back in.
However, I am like you - I just like to see the caves. It is just that many=
of the places in Florida I like to dive are wide open, so to see it you ha=
ve to explore it. My favorite diving is actually Mexico and the Bahamas, an=
d I generally like to go with those who can show me the good stuff, like Da=
nny and Chris.
=20
-----Original message-----
From: Tanto Sanmai tanto_sanmai@yahoo.it
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 00:27:29 -0700
To: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [gavinscooters] deep end of Diepolder
> I love these stories!
> Why do they want to keep you away from diepolder, because you don't let t=
hem into Wakulla? At
> least if the cave continued I would understand, many cavers fear that the=
"competition" may add
> some line (and leave an AJ box!), but if the cave ends...
> On another hand, I am sorry that simple cave divers that are not explorer=
s by any means and dive
> for the fun of it and for the beauty of the caves cannot dive Wakulla. I =
mean divers that would
> just bring a stage and a couple of deco's, for a short bt and a short rt;=
when I saw a video of
> sally ward, I was shocked, I can only imagine how nice it would be to swi=
m that little tunnel and
> end-up in that huge room... fantastic!
> Anyway, thanks for the stories, it was a lot of fun.
>=20
>=20
> --- George Irvine <girvine@bellsouth.net> ha scritto:=20
>=20
>> I forgot about eh cave drawing that existed prior to anyone ( us) blowing
>> the whistle on those bullshitters. That "Floridan Aquifer" and "Jumbo Go
>> Tunnel" nonsense at the end is nothing but a room full of clay and rocks
>> about 20X20. Even funnier is the "Flag Room". They have drawing of an
>> American Flag with a list of stokes so horrific that Gavin and I almost
>> choked down all our gas laughing when we read it.
>>=20
>> JJ was booted, as was Lamar English, for taking me in there. You know, I
>> never messed with any of these idiots, but in fact ignored them, until t=
hey
>> started it up with me in one way or another. Their biggest complaint abo=
ut
>> me, and this used to go for the entire diving "community" ,was when I bl=
ew
>> the whistle on bullshit, like their Narcosis Club at Diepolder and other
>> deep air diving nonsense, the guy you mention below teaching a "gas cour=
se"
>> while himself diving air and other stupidity too ridiculous to mention, =
the
>> constant bragging about nothing dives and the "step aside for the expert"
>> attitude that these strokes still have to this day.
>>=20
>> I don't need friends badly enough to accommodate dangerous morons.
>>=20
>> Somebody asked about the AJ joke. That started when Gavin and I were in =
our
>> condo in Mexico making breakfast, and in walks Dan Lins to inform us that
>> Jim Coke said that Gavin and I would never get to the end of his line in=
Dos
>> Ojos, as it was the "limit of exploration" which had all the great and
>> famous divers involved. I was sitting at the bar looking at the pancake =
box
>> trying not to bust out laughing, when Gavin handed me a knife, and I sta=
rted
>> cutting the Aunt Jemima face off of the pancake box. We both fell about =
the
>> place laughing, and of course Lins got a little pissed off and left.
>>=20
>> Later that day, Mike Madden, Gavin and I paid Buddy " The Salamander"
>> Quaddlebaum $100 to drive us out to Dos Ojos in one of the giant jacked =
up
>> Unimogs, or whatever they call them. Back then there were not roads to a=
ny
>> of these places. This was of course treason on the part of Buddy. That i=
s a
>> story in itself. Anyway, after we ran out of line adding some 2500 feet =
to
>> the end and found the way on, we placed that AJ at the end of the line, =
and
>> gave Coke the survey data. Years later when they built roads out there,
>> somebody found the AJ coming the other direction from a sinkhole we did =
not
>> have enough line to reach. Keep in mind that in Mexico we did not use the
>> Gavins or any of the other tricks, just Teknas and whatever tanks you co=
uld
>> get, and we swam most of the way.I brought some AJ's back to the States =
and
>> placed them where the situation called for it.
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gavinscooters@yahoogroups.co=
m]On
>> Behalf Of Tanto Sanmai
>> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 9:06 AM
>> To: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: RE: [gavinscooters] deep end of Diepolder
>>=20
>>=20
>> Funny story. The reason I asked was this drawing:
>> http://www.floridacaves.com/diepolder2mapb.JPG
>> where you get the impression that the cave continues. Many surveys are
>> often incorrect, though.
>> Actually back in 1995 one of the guides, Bill Oestreich, told me exact=
ly
>> what you said, that he
>> did the dive to the end of the line no problem, using a scooter, no ne=
ed
>> to set up the cave or
>> anything.
>> Why was JJ "booted out" by Clesi anyway? Didn't want you there? ;-)
>> Hey, just out of curiosity, don't want you to step on someonelse's toe=
s or
>> making more enemies
>> than what you already have!
>>=20
>>=20
>> --- George Irvine <trey@myacc.net> ha scritto:
>>=20
>> > Actually, it is not obvious because Diepolder is a closed system - i=
t is
>> on
>> > property belonging to the Boy Scouts, and they have a "guide" system,
>> which
>> > is a collection of strokes and deep air divers who could not explore=
a
>> > swimming pool. The head stroke still brags about his glory days in
>> Diepolder
>> > where it took him and a collection of other laughables two months to=
not
>> > even make that 20 minute dive I was talking about. You have no idea =
how
>> > funny this really is - the stories I could tell about some of these
>> idiots
>> > are so ridiculous as to hardly even be believable.
>> >
>> > Let me give you one tidbit - if you have ever been to Paul Heinerth's
>> (LOL)
>> > dive shop near Deipolder, and I don't even know if it is still there
>> since I
>> > am going back some 16 years now, there is a gigantic ballast tank fr=
om a
>> > submarine that one of the other strokes (Jim Kink, again, LOL) had
>> installed
>> > there since that was the "base" for this "massive project" where they
>> > managed to add 50 feet of line to the line a guy named Dale Sweetin (
>> who
>> > may have died of old age by now ) put in on air 20 years ago.
>> >
>> > Sweetin actually was or may still be the insurance agent who these g=
uys
>> > bought some kind of policy from for their little guiding service. The
>> reason
>> > I know that is for the first one of my two dives there I had to pay =
the
>> > insurance for a guy who was an inactive guide so that he could take
>> Gavin
>> > and I there. The only reason we even did it was because the head str=
oke
>> told
>> > me that a Gavin scooter was a toy when I was in his dive shop gettin=
g a
>> tank
>> > topped with air ( was driving by on the way to someplace else). I we=
nt
>> out
>> > to the car ( in those days many mobile phones were built into the ca=
rs)
>> and
>> > phoned Gavin to tell him we were going to go finish off Diepolders f=
or
>> the
>> > strokes. He of course said why waste time with it, until I told him =
the
>> news
>> > that the scooter was a "toy". He then said he would be there in a da=
y,
>> and I
>> > called the other guy, paid the insurance, and then we did the dive,
>> adding a
>> > little bit of line and placing an Aunt Jemima off of a pancake box at
>> the
>> > end of the cave.
>> >
>> > It gets even better. After the head stroke booted our "guide' and la=
ter
>> > booted Jarrod as a guide for me going back with Jarrod to see the Au=
nt
>> > Jemima ( this time less than a twenty minute dive) from surface to
>> deco),
>> > the stroke cut an Auntie J off of f pancake box and posted it in his
>> dive
>> > shop saying he had retrieved it. Well, the dumb ass did not know that
>> the
>> > one I put in the cave was from a Mexican pancake box and was in
>> Spanish - it
>> > had the Spanish name for Auntie J, not the English.
>> >
>> > I could go on and on about the idiots in the cave diving community, =
so
>> don't
>> > get me started.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
>> > [mailto:gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tanto Sanmai
>> > Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 2:29 PM
>> > To: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: Re: [gavinscooters] deep end of Diepolder
>> >
>> >
>> > So the reason there's no exploration being done is simply that the=
re's
>> > nothing to explore. With
>> > hindsight seems it should have been obvious.
>> > Thanks for the feedback.
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Trey Irvine <trey@gavinscooters.com> ha scritto:
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> >
>> > There is a low clay tunnel that ends in a little room - nothing th=
ere.
>> > From the surface back to
>> > deco took twenty minutes. The place is a joke.
>> >
>> > -----Original message-----
>> > From: Tanto Sanmai tanto_sanmai@yahoo.it
>> > Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 06:18:54 -0700
>> > To: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: Re: [gavinscooters] deep end of Diepolder
>> >
>> > > Trey said:
>> > > Gavin and I added to the deep end of Diepolder and finished it o=
ff
>> in
>> > one 20 minute dive on gas
>> > > after the strokes held massive "projects" there and did nothing,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > How does Diepolder end? there seems to be no info on the deep en=
d of
>> > DP2: does it continue, does
>> > > it end? Is there a restriction?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ___________________________________
>> > > Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB
>> > > http://mail.yahoo.it
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
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>> >
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>> >
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>>=20
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----- End forwarded message -----
--=20
Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sr. UNIX Administrator <jsmoriss@mvlan.net>
Personal Home Page <http://jsmoriss.mvlan.net/>
Underwater and Travel Photographs <http://www.mvpix.com/>