[diveinfo] [girvine@bellsouth.net: RE: [gavinscooters] time depht gauge & buddy]
Jean-Sebastien Morisset
diveinfo@lists.mvlan.net
Mon, 28 Nov 2005 17:51:11 -0500
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From: "George Irvine" <girvine@bellsouth.net>
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Subject: RE: [gavinscooters] time depht gauge & buddy
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Sticking to a plan is essential, especially in ocean drift diving, but
decompressing on a run time implies blowing stops to keep with the run time.
Where people get hung up is in trying to exactly time the deeper stops and
ending up taking too long, or weenying at the intermediates ( wrongly)
assume more is better.
I merely bring this up, Mozi, because in the past many deco experts were
advocating jumping to the run time when in doubt. While this appears
mathematically correct and will calculate correctly using a model, since the
models are bullshit you are merely borrowing from one stop to pay off
another, negating the efforts to reduce the imperative of upper stops by
correctly completing the lower ones.
But since you bring it up, let me just repeat the notion that overdoing the
stops is dangerous from a planning point of view and unnecessary from a deco
point of view.
The best way to achieve the correct ascent rate is to physically come to a
stop every ten feet, but not to bother looking at the time or staying at the
10 foot increment. Just the act of stopping three times over 30 feet will
end up giving you about a 30 foot per minute ascent. Beyond that, as you
start deep stopping, the time increment gets longer by only seconds for most
dives, so to get those right you can usually just physically stop for just a
few seconds longer than when ascending and be pretty much on the money.
Those who try to time these steps for shorter dives end up taking too long
while spending too much time fixated on their timing device instead of being
heads up and alert to their buddy and surroundings.
One of my biggest beefs about dive instruction is when either the instructor
or the student get too caught up in the bullshit and miss all the important
points, or where the student comes away with stellar pool skills and not a
freaking clue about the real nature of the game. It is like pro football -
when a seasoned pro gets injured and they put in some superman kid who has
all the skills and all the natural ability, the other team uses that kid as
a weak point to make big plays. When the rookies learn the real deal, they
then become the player they are expected to be based on their skill and
training. How long it takes to learn that in my opinion depends on the skill
of the coach and the willingness of the player to learn the game.
-----Original Message-----
From: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Muzafar El-Ariss
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 2:39 PM
To: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [gavinscooters] time depht gauge & buddy
Trey,
Could you elaborate on not "going by runtime when decompressing" ? If I
am reading this correctly, you get to the stop and decide how long to stay
at that stop depending on where you re at on the curve and what your BT was
like, regardless of "runtime" as all other steps were done correctly so no
need to be fixated on "runtime". Am I making sense?
Thanks,
Mozi
Trey Irvine <trey@gavinscooters.com> wrote:
The only time I ever took a watch was where a dive was so long that I
wanted to know what time of day it really was - merely a self entertainment
device. I kept it in my pocket, I did not actually wear it or use it for
anything but curiosity, and in fact when I started using a Suunto timer,
which records time of day, I stopped taking the watch.
For me, this was a vestigal throwback to the old days of timers that
rolled over every 100 minutes, which made me lose track of what time it was,
and then I would start obsessing over what the time was, which makes no
difference since the stops are what they are and I do not go by "run time"
when decompressing.
When I actually did try to wear regular watches on dives, I always lost
them. I did at one time have a Citizens dive watch, which showed depth, but
the battery finally died and I never replaced it. I did not like walking
around looking like a pimp with that watch.
-----Original message-----
From: "Igor Beades" buzonospam@yahoo.es
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:24:06 -0800
To: gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [gavinscooters] time depht gauge & buddy
> Hi George,
>
> I only dive DIR and time ago assumed the significance of
standarization. But
> being sincere I have never understand why we use a watch if some depth
> gauges already have one.
>
> Would you please, give some light onto it?
>
> TIA
>
> Igor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George Irvine" <girvine@bellsouth.net>
> To: <gavinscooters@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 1:48 PM
> Subject: RE: [gavinscooters] time depht gauge & buddy
>
>
> > I would not call a dive over a broken depth gauge or timer, and as
you
> point
> > out, your buddy has one. You already know about what depth and time
you
> are
> > going to dive, you already have a good idea of the decompression you
are
> > going to do, and you know what the correct ascent rate feels like so
there
> > is no difficulty keying off of your buddy. People who worry about
timers
> and
> > gauges generally are really worried about the deco, not about
anything
> else,
> > or they are using a computer, or they believe that deco is some
precise
> > measurement that requires special timing devices and exact depths,
which
> of
> > course is not the case.
> >
> > The genesis of timer/gauge obsession dates back to the days of the
> > heavily-geared strokes who always decked themselves out with
multiple
> > computes, gauges, and other trinkets which did nothing more than
proudly
> > display their status at the dive shop as a big customer.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Jean-Sebastien Morisset, Sr. UNIX Administrator <jsmoriss@mvlan.net>
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